Rebecca Archer
Welcome to The Remarkables, Grant Thornton's podcast that seeks to uncover stories about remarkable people doing incredible things for their community; bettering the world for future generations, and inspiring others to do the same. I'm Rebecca Archer, and today I'm joined by one of Australia's leading sustainability experts, Dr. Monique Retamal.
Dr. Retamal is the Research Director at the Institute for Sustainable Futures within the University of Technology Sydney, specialising in sustainable consumption and production and the circular economy in the Asia Pacific region. Her recent research has focused on the sustainability of packaging and plastics, the clothing industry, metals and e-waste, and policies for a circular economy.
Welcome, Dr. Retamal, it's so wonderful to have you on our podcast. And thank you very much for taking time out of what must be a very busy schedule to speak with us about some of the important projects and initiatives that you're working on.
Rebecca Archer
Your recent research into the fashion industry uncovered some very alarming figures about clothes and textiles wastage, and the impact that has on the environment. Can you elaborate a bit on those findings, please?
Dr Monique Retamal
Our research really tapped into a lot of the research that's out there about the impacts of the textile and garment industry. And we were really looking about what governments and industries and consumers should do about it. So that research was particularly around trying to envision a future for the fashion industry, which is about a well-being economy. But some of those stats are pretty alarming. In particular, the rapid rate with which we are consuming and disposing of the clothing. A study by the Ellen MacArthur Foundation found that between 2000-2015, clothing production doubled. And at the same time, our use of that clothing went down by nearly half. So we use each item of clothing about 40% less before we dispose of them. And that's you know, compared to prior to 2000.
So there's been a rapid increase in our consumption of clothing. And all of that's concerning because of the waste that it produces. But also the impacts – the production of clothing is an extremely polluting industry; it's done in countries where they kind of struggle to manage their regulations around, you know, discharges to the environment. And also there's a lot of issues around labour rights. And there's a lot of work ongoing to improve that industry. So that's happening. But the current rate at which we're consuming clothing, it has a real impact on our sort of global carbon budget. So at the rate that we're going, the production of new clothing is set to use about 25% of our global carbon budget, if we want to limit warming to two degrees by 2050. So that's a huge proportion. There are so many other industries and needs we have in society. So it's clear that we need to address this.
Rebecca Archer
I guess, just taking one step back, what's behind this move to very ultra-fast fashion, I suppose. And what do you attribute to the dramatic increase in that over the last 20 years or so?
Dr Monique Retamal
It will be a number of things. Partly it's producers, there's so much more competition out there, producers need to make more money; there's very small margins to be made for the producers of clothing, on each item of clothing. So it's better to sell more, and sort of that there's been a huge shift as well, on social media; we're kind of marketing clothes through Instagram, and the role of influencers and that kind of things. But I think we've just slowly adapted to this culture, I think, of consuming clothes faster. And I know that you know, fast fashion is designed to, item’s designed to be worn seven times, and the quality is often reflective of that. So we have clothing that is less durable now as well. So it's challenging.
Rebecca Archer
Could you explain the concept of what a well-being wardrobe – this phrase that's around and people might have heard of it, but not really fully understood exactly what it comprises?
Dr Monique Retamal
Yeah, it's a really interesting one. And I think it's kind of topical as well, because our new Treasurer and the Australian Government is very keen to drive a well-being economy. So this is becoming a very kind of important concept. But we actually were commissioned to do this work by the European Environmental Bureau. And they were interested to develop this idea of a well-being wardrobe. And this is the idea of moving the fashion industry towards a well-being economy. And we were kind of conceptualising that, I guess theoretically and then working with the fashion industry and stakeholders in Europe and Asia, to understand, you know, what it would look like on the ground basically. And so there's kind of some key principles and they are about the need to operate within planetary boundaries and ecological limits, that there are some limits. We can't keep producing and consuming at ever faster rates. And we need to do something about that.
The next principle was about enabling fairness. And that's kind of across supply chains and intergenerationally. And we know there's a lot of labour issues in supply chains. There's also the need to enable participation in governance, because there's a lot of power imbalance. And the final one was about embracing new systems of exchange, and new business models. So you know, we have our, you know, secondhand clothing, charity shops, there's also a lot of social enterprise and not for profits as cooperatives. There's kind of peer-to-peer models, there's also sharing and collaborative consumption. So there's, there's a wide range of kind of alternative means of providing clothing. So that's kind of like, in a nutshell, the concept of a well-being wardrobe.
Rebecca Archer
Fantastic. Thank you for that. And I guess it's one of those things where many people are probably conscious of reducing their plastic and packaging usage. And certainly a lot of awareness raising has been done around that issue. But a lot of people I think, may not be aware of how much of an impact the clothes that they're buying, actually might be having on the environment, even in the short term. How do you think you can successfully get that message across to people, that fast fashion is doing a lot of damage?
Dr Monique Retamal
I think it's happening, I think, for a long time, people have been aware of the kind of the ethical dimensions of clothing, like people that people are concerned about, you know, the welfare of the people who made their clothes. And I think it's coming, because there's a lot of momentum for more sustainable fashion. There's a lot of small, small enterprise, and they're responding to demand. But I think there's a huge challenge out there, and I actually think there is some consumer interest and desire. But there is a lack of information. And it's really hard to do research to find out what brands are better or what clothing is better and how to weigh these things up. So I think, yes, we need more awareness raising, and that's starting to happen globally. But I also think we need sort of more certification and labelling, and I guess more kind of standardisation around how sustainability is reported, basically.
Rebecca Archer
Now every State and Territory in Australia has now banned types of single use plastics, but I wonder if these bans are actually making a material difference as oceans of plastic piling up. You know, we see footage of that on the TV and in digital media as well. What real impact or benefit is there to these bans?
Dr Monique Retamal
I think actually, some of these bans are kind of just gearing up to be honest. So each, I think it's now each state in Australia, each State and Territory has introduced single use plastic bans. And that includes things like plastic bags, like the thin plastic bags, but many states are also starting to ban plastic straws, stirrers, single use cutlery, that kind of thing. And I think ultimately, that will make a difference. But some of them are literally just being phased in or just being implemented. And I guess the key thing with regards to how impactful they are is, is what they're replaced with.
So there's been a lot of confusion out there about plastics for example. So there are bio plastics which are made from organic materials like sugarcane, or in some cases algae or I don't know sort of fibre waste from agriculture and that kind of thing. Some of those organics can be synthesised into plastics again, and they're called bio plastics, and you'll see those around. And they're sort of marketed as being better than regular plastics. The only catch is that they also need to be compostable, because plastics made from biological sources are the same as real plastics. It's all about how they break down. So composability is really critical.
And in particular, home compostibility, because there are some bio plastics out there that can be industrially composted, but they need their own collection system, they need to be processed at a special facility. And a lot of consumers don't realise that they buy their, you know, a smoothie in a big bio pack plastic and think, oh, well, it's great, it's bio plastic, but it's it's only better if it's compostable basically. So there are a whole range of open questions around the bands. I think they could potentially include more items, you know, for example, you know, plastic bowls or plates or there are other plastic items, which could also, you know, benefit from being banned, but we also just need to be careful about what they're replaced with. And some jurisdictions are starting to do that and take notice of that, and have actually banned bio plastics as well, just due to the confusion around that. So there are some challenges that are yet to be dealt with.
Rebecca Archer
And again, would that go towards what you were saying earlier about labelling as well, where people if they understood exactly what happens to that product when it is ready to be disposed of, they might think twice about well, I actually it's not as good for the environment as I thought as the name perhaps made out.
Dr Monique Retamal
But I think there's moves towards dealing with that. So the Australian packaging covenant has been working on labelling and driving really the introduction of labelling around the Australian standards. So there are Australian standards for compostability for home compostability, or industrial compostability. And those labels are starting to appear. But there's still so much diversity in terms of what consumers are being presented with. And they don't know how to dispose of those those plastics correctly, and that some people let's face it, really don't engage with it. And that's fair enough, if they if they don't know what to do with it. The system needs to be simple, basically. And at the moment, it's quite complicated.
Rebecca Archer
Now, around the country, most councils provide recycling bins for residents and businesses. But exactly where does our recycling actually go? What's the process?
Dr Monique Retamal
It varies a bit by state, but generally, your recycling will be collected and taken to like a Material Recovery Facilit. The most valuable items will be sorted out. So if you have a comingled recycling, so the cardboard box will be separated, and the most kind of valuable plastics will be sorted. So for example, PET and HDPE. That's numbers one and two, which you might see on the bottom of your beverage containers, for example. They will be sorted and sold for recycling. However, there are a whole range of other plastics, which don't have much of a market value as a secondary material. And so there has been quite a challenge trying to figure out how to deal with those plastics. Because historically, I think between around 2000-2018, we were exporting mixed plastics. And so that's like all the non-valuable plastics, they were sort of being bailed up and shipped overseas, and they were being sorted overseas.
But as you may have heard, in the news, around 2018, China was taking a lot of that waste and refused, well refused taking any more basically, because it wasn't viable for them, and was also causing environmental harm trying to manage that huge industry of sorting those plastics and doing something with them. And so then the whole world shifted towards sending them mixed plastics to South East Asia. And over time, one by one, various countries also banned the import of those plastics. So the problem is that in many cases, they're not even worth sorting in those countries, because they don't have value. And they don't have necessarily good waste disposal systems. So those plastics are often being burned in sort of in the open, not incinerated; they were being dumped in uncontrolled landfills. And there were all kinds of associated environmental problems.
So that's why there's countries were banning the import of mixed plastics. And then as a consequence, Australia also implemented bans on the export; not just a plastics but of various recycling. So plastics and glass and cardboard, for example, as well as tyres, so there's a range of restrictions that have been phased in. And so that has created a situation where these plastics are accumulating in Australia. And they have been stockpiled, they have been landfilled. So as I mentioned, the very valuable plastics are still sorted. And in particular, the container deposit schemes that we have where we take them to the vending machine, and cash them in. That creates a high-quality recycling stream, and they are still exported and recycled.
However, those these mix plastics are still a problem. And the latest I've heard is in addition to the landfilling, and stockpiling, there is a movement towards compressing these plastics and other mixed recyclables into fuel bricks, and they are being exported and sold for fuel, for example, you know. Cement kilns or industrial applications overseas. So that's it's not really the recycling that we hope for, incineration. It's an interim solution. But yeah, that's what's happening at the moment while we wait for a domestic recycling infrastructure to be developed, because we don't really do the processing and recycling in Australia. So a lot of that infrastructure is yet to be built.
Rebecca Archer
And how much confusion Do you think there still is in 2022? Around the labelling of recycling products, do you think in general people know which plastics are recyclable? Or which bottles to take to the container exchange? You know, do you think that there is a general understanding or does there need to be a better awareness raising campaigns? And so that people really fully understand what they should be doing to recycle things in the most environmentally friendly way they can.
Dr Monique Retamal
So I think awareness is not a one off thing, it needs to be ongoing. The systems change. As you may know, many councils are getting FOGO systems, which is the Food Organics and Garden Organics, and that's in their new system. So they have changed over the years, but our practices have adapted to what was available. And what was available was the ability to export everything to China without sorting it. And so we became accustomed to putting any hard plastic in the recycling, for example. And unfortunately, some of those plastics don't even have a number on them. So the numbering system on your plastics indicates the type of plastic. But there are many types of hard plastics.
Say for example, if you get a tray of biscuits, that sort of crinkly plastic often doesn't have a number. So it's unknown. Therefore, it can't be recycled, for example. So people don't know that there are hard plastics that are not recyclable. They also don't know that the numbering system is just an identification, you know, when you see the little triangle and the number, it's just identifying, it doesn't actually mean that all of those types of plastics are recycled. So yes, certainly greater awareness would help. But I guess beyond that, there's kind of more problematic things like people putting plastic bags in like plastic bags, tangled up all of the processing machines, putting nappies in the recycling like that kind of like heavy contamination is quite problematic for our recycling systems as well.
Rebecca Archer
I certainly have to admit that when I see the little triangle, I just think, well, that's recyclable. So I just put it into the recycling bin. So I'm guilty of that, too.
Dr Monique Retamal
And that would be fair enough. But so I guess just to give your listeners an idea, the most valuable plastics are numbers, one, two, and five, the others may become more recyclable in the future, we'll see it just sort of depends on how valuable they are for secondary markets. And the number seven is, is a mixed category. So it's all other types. So that's not particularly useful for recyclers either.
Rebecca Archer
Gosh, so much to learn here. Now, the notion of a circular economy is gaining real momentum, you're starting to see that term used a lot more in the media in particular, can you explain exactly what a circular economy is?
Dr Monique Retamal
The concept really comes out of an acknowledgment that our current economy is very linear. We extract resources, we produce things, we use them, we dispose of them, and it's kind of like a one-way street. And so the circular economy is a thinking about the continuous recirculation of resources in our economy. And there are kind of three principles that are, you know, widely accepted around circular economy, and one is designing out waste and pollution so that we design our products and our systems so that waste isn't inherent.
And that we also aim to keep products and materials in use for as long as possible at a high value. And that can happen in a number of ways, which I'll go into. But the third principle is about regenerating natural systems. So while we're doing all of this, thinking about maintaining our natural environment, and restoring it, in terms of keeping goods in use for as long as possible, we think about things like redesigning, avoiding material consumption where possible, reusing, repairing things, sharing, remanufacturing, recycling, and as a last resort, sort of moving towards energy from waste, for example.
But the aim is to sort of keep goods circulating at higher value for as long as possible before sort of, you know, moving down the chain into you know, recycling and disposal and that kind of thing. So, in this concept, there is kind of a hierarchy and designing out waste and avoiding waste is really the top of the list.
Rebecca Archer
And what can you tell me about collaborative consumption or the sharing economy? What exactly does that entail?
Dr Monique Retamal
Collaborative consumption, the sharing economy, it's kind of appeared over the last decade. And you might be familiar with lots of online platforms that enable people to share goods. So some examples include, like, you know, Bike Share in many countries. The idea is that people don't need to own everything that they use. So the things that you use occasionally, for example, like a ball gown, or some camping equipment, for example, those are the sorts of things that you could share, and you could sort of, you know, maybe rent or share on a kind of a peer-to-peer basis. So the idea with that kind of movement is yeah, it's an innovative new way to consume and also has the potential to drastically reduce the impacts of our consumption.
So yeah, there's lots of interesting examples out there, there's, you know, tool sharing, a lot of people have garages full of tools that they rarely use, for example. There are all kinds of interesting ones in the kind of clothing industry, for example, you know, clothing subscription or rental. And like sort of short-term rental of particular items or subscriptions have kind of like a box of new clothes each month, not new, rather, shared clothing that you will rotate. So it kind of enables people to have access to goods and access to a diversity of goods potentially, without owning everything. And without contributing to this, you know, mass increase of consumption.
Rebecca Archer
Realistically, how far away do you think Australia is from a circular economy model being implemented here?
Dr Monique Retamal
It's been gaining momentum, we were doing a lot of policy work in 2018, sort of doing investigations for state governments in Australia. And there was a lot of work going on globally, and they're still is, trying to figure out how we can enable a circular economy. It's a long-term ambition, because it's really fundamental to like the way we consume and produce. And so it requires a lot of change. And I think it has started primarily with recycling, because the movement has coincided with this recycling crisis that we've had with exports of our recycling.
But I think ultimately, it needs to kind of move up the chain in terms of thinking about how you know, how businesses provide goods to consume, how producers design and produce those things. So it's quite comprehensive. And I think we're just at the beginning of that journey, really. So there is a long way to go. But there is a lot of enthusiasm, and I am constantly receiving calls from governments and businesses who are interested to get on board and be part of that change.
Rebecca Archer
Well, of course, a lot of your work through the university is done at a policy level. So what should governments be doing to drive sustainability? What do you say when you get those calls?
Dr Monique Retamal
There's a lot to discuss. And it kind of, we're getting to the stage now, I think we've been talking a lot about sort of policy principles, and those kind of high level things. So some of the things we talk about are around design standards. For example, in Europe, they have the EU design, the Eco Design Directive, and that kind of sets standards around the way products should be designed, and also thinking about the you know, the lifespan of our goods and durability and and, you know, having producers be responsible for the end of life of their products. So extended producer responsibility is a big part of that in Australia, we call it product stewardship. There's also a lot of momentum around that in Australia, at the moment.
But I also think it's quite challenging for particularly startup businesses who are innovating and using kind of new business models, it's really hard to get financed to start up; it's really hard for individual businesses to I guess operate without the kind of the ecosystem around it. So you kind of need like many small businesses and systems to work in order to really sort of get momentum for this change. So I think governments have a role to play in helping startups; providing incentives through tax, providing grants, incubators support, for example, to create that ecosystem of circular economy businesses. They also can implement policy, I guess, to support the development of markets, because that's been a real challenge in Australia because we don't really have any manufacturing. And we're sort of moving towards onshoring a lot of this kind of circular economy activity that we need to sort of develop our manufacturing sector at the same time. And so yes, it policy needs to support that market development as well.
Rebecca Archer
And what about corporates and businesses? What can they do to increase their ambitions for sustainability? Because of course, consumers are looking for accountability from big corporates and ASX listed companies and global entities as well now.
Dr Monique Retamal
I think what I've seen is that corporate tend to comply with regulation. Sometimes they go a little further, but I think often they kind of move together. And I think that for corporates wishing to expand their ambitions, I think they could really look beyond regulatory requirements and look at you know, looming environmental issues, because the sustainability expectations of consumers and investors are increasing all the time, and regulations lag behind. So governments really don't want to be ahead of the pack. They want there to be momentum in industry and in consumer demand before they implement those regulations.
So I think corporates would have a lot to gain and being ahead of the pack and really helping to drive that. So I guess one of the things is there's a big movement towards extended producer responsibility and product stewardship schemes; there are just a couple of mandatory schemes in Australia. But the government is investing heavily in kind of supporting voluntary or sort of co-regulatory arrangements for product stewardship. And so that means companies are getting more involved with being in charge of the lifespan of their products and taking responsibility for that end of life and designing things. So to minimise their ultimate impact on the environment.
But I think corporates can also look ahead at some of the looming sustainability issues. So as we know, there's lots of focus on packaging and plastics, and you know, single use plastics, we've been talking about that for a while, and everyone's quite aware of, you know, marine plastic pollution for example. But I think awareness is growing right now about the huge impact of clothing. In Australia, I think people started to become aware that a lot of our clothing that goes to charity, for example that's poor quality ends up in these huge landfills in Ghana, for example, or you know, falling into the ocean and you know, towers of waste. A few documentaries recently have shed light on that. So people are starting to understand that, and they want to see change.
Another thing which I think is, you know, just on that horizon is we know about the impact of e-waste, like electrical and electronic goods. But I see very few businesses addressing this issue in terms of what they sell. In many cases we’re being sold very poor-quality electrical goods for example, that break pretty quickly. And what happens is those goods break, we take them back to the store and the store says “no worries have a new one”. But there isn't a lot of like insight as to what happens to all those returns? Are we just buying e-waste? And consumers are going to start to demand better, I think, you know, in terms of the durability and lifespan and repairability of goods, because e-waste has a huge environmental impact as well. And it's very polluting to process and recycle.
So I guess another thing is that corporates and businesses can think about the value propositions that can support a circular economy, and starting to innovate around business models. So you know, can they provide a service rather than a product? Are they able to avoid material consumption or enable kind of reuse through their business model arrangements? I think, yeah, I think that would be really wise to start thinking about that. Because there's a lot of interest in this at the moment.
Rebecca Archer
And what about on an individual level? What are some everyday actions that people can take to combat the ever-increasing plastics and textiles wastage across the planet?
Dr Monique Retamal
Avoidance is key, like, if you can you know, reuse packaging for example, or you know, reuse your coffee cup and use a reusable scheme, for example. Also I guess thinking twice about, you know, purchasing new clothing? Like, do you really need it? How much you actually going to wear it? And are there other ways you can access it? If you need it once? Can you borrow it from a friend? Can you get it from a secondhand store? Can you rent, it, just rethinking some of those things. And also thinking about quality with all of these things, you know, like with your electrical goods, with your clothing, buy something that lasts longer. And, you know, keeping things for longer, using good quality, there's so much impact in the production and in the disposal. So if you can avoid that, then then that will make a huge difference.
Rebecca Archer
It's a really hard one to get your head around. Sometimes I think, particularly with the clothing and textiles, because obviously, lots of consumers, women in particular, I would suggest have that idea of ‘retail therapy’, being good for the soul and doing something good for yourself and rewarding yourself. And so it's a shopping spree. It's interesting to think about the impact that that can have on the environment. And just going those few steps ahead and thinking “well hang on a second, are there better things that I could do that would still fill my soul, but not necessarily end up with a whole lot of wastage”?
Dr Monique Retamal
I know, it's a huge thing. And it's a huge practice change. You know, when that is part of it like a self-care routine or something like that. It's super challenging but I think kind of yeah, acknowledging that that's happening is maybe the step. The first step. I heard the other day that Australian Fashion Council had learned that Australians were consuming I think it was 56 items of clothing per year. So per person, which is shocking. So it makes me think there's a lot of clothing being bought that's just going straight into the cupboard. And maybe not even being used. But I guess I mean, a starting thing can be thinking about how much money is being spent and how it can be spent in other enjoyable ways. And maybe it's maybe it's a holiday. There's other things to do. So yeah, I acknowledge it's a challenge, but I guess yeah, understanding that that it's having an impact is the first step.
Rebecca Archer
Dr. Monique Retamal, thank you so much for your time. How can our listeners learn more about what we've talked about here today? Where should they go?
Dr Monique Retamal
So I'm a Research Director at the Institute for Sustainable Futures at the University of Technology in Sydney. So on our website, there are plenty of links to our projects. So yeah, feel free to look on there. You can also Google ‘well-being wardrobe’ and you'll probably find out reports on that topic as well.
Rebecca Archer
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