Rebecca Archer
Welcome to The Remarkables – Grant Thornton’s podcast that seeks to uncover stories about remarkable people doing incredible things for their community, bettering the world for future generations and inspiring others to do the same.
I'm Rebecca Archer, and today I'm joined by Bec Brideson, a business professional who wears many hats. From business strategy consultant to published author, she has been recognised as a pioneer in gender equity initiatives and is driven to educate people on the power of gender diversity when it comes to growth and innovation in business. Welcome, Bec, and thank you for joining us on the podcast today.
Bec Brideson
It's great to be here.
Rebecca Archer
Can you tell us a bit about your career journey up to this point?
Bec Brideson
I won't give you the year-by-year work that I went through, but I started off by studying a Bachelor’s in Communications, and I also like to add that I've got a few other significant degrees. One is a Master’s in Course Language or Profanity, and currently doing a PhD in Hindsight, which I think is incredibly important for all of us to be able to look back and say, where have we been and where are we going and how do we take that information forward?
So, I have had nearly three-decade career in communications and advertising. I've worked in multinational agencies in both Melbourne and Sydney and New Zealand, and then I returned to Melbourne after about six years, a whole different person with a lot of life experience. And I started working at an independent agency, and it was four people when I started there, and it was about 40 when I left. And I was working very closely with the owner of that agency and that was where I guess I learned how to take an idea and a business and make it grow. And I was extremely grateful for that experience because it allowed me to really be at that coalface and understand what growth looked like and how to get new business and pitch for clients and be bold and take a risk – and that eventually led to me starting my own agency in 2004.
Rebecca Archer
Now I'm wondering why it is that seeing business through a gender lens is something that you're particularly passionate about?
Bec Brideson
Using that PhD in hindsight, I remember being at a school, which had been traditionally a boys school for 100 years, and they decided, in order to grow their market, they would make it coeducational. What I noticed was the 100 girls that started, we fit into what was already a culture that had been created, which was understandably, a masculine culture. And we were right at that sort of seminal moment where the culture was undergoing a shift, but it was entrenched through this sort of school that had been created for boys. And in hindsight, I think that was where I really felt like we're quite the outsiders here. We're not naturally fitting into the culture and all around us the honor boards and the tradition and the names of the houses and the way that they'd conduct assemblies even, there was a lot of reference to boys sport and male interests or male sports. And I started to see the world like, oh, this seems to be a prevailing culture, even when you look at the statues around our cities are very often celebrating male heroes or important figures in history. The art that I studied – it was the creation of man. It was all of the great artists, philosophers – there was very few women on the horizon. But I just marinated in that culture because that's what was there.
But when I started to look at some of the data coming through in the early, I guess the early 2000s, about men and women and how we behave differently and respond differently, which I knew we responded differently to advertising and to what was driving us to purchase and who was doing the purchasing. I started to see it's not a bad thing to look at gender and to understand more readily that Mars/Venus – what drives a male, what drives a female, and they are different, and that's okay, and that's to be celebrated. So, when I looked at that through a business lens, I started to see really big opportunities to be very granular with the way we were looking at behavior, at data, at purchases, and how we could turn that into an advantage. So that's the reason it started back for me in that moment in my education, and what I've done with it is, I guess, the journey that is over 40 years.
Rebecca Archer
Did you also have experiences that were similar to your educational experience within the workforce or anything along your path that inspired you to do this work?
Bec Brideson
Yeah, definitely. I remember when I became a Creative Director – there were not many female Creative Directors. In fact, there were not many females in the service line of the creative department that I was working in. I was always the token woman, and there was 26 per cent of females working in creative departments at the time, and there were only 3 per cent globally of female Creative Directors in advertising, and I found that astonishing because women did most of the purchasing. Those figures started to come, but yet we've got males who are creating entertainment or advertising around these products. And that's where I really started to see a disparity. And I used to wonder why people don't like that idea or that idea, but they're men. They're not even the consumers making a decision or whether it was client side or agency side, men didn't seem to get that story. And then when you look at genres of movies, a Romcom, guys don't necessarily love Romcoms -generalizing here – but ticket sales will show women like the Romcom, men like the action and adventure. And I thought, that's the same thing. So we're selling to women, but we're seeing that through a very male perspective, and I guess over decades the idea of the male lens and the female lens started to come up for me.
Rebecca Archer
And what drives you to keep doing this work? Is it sort of I guess that spark from when you started with your education and you found yourself feeling like othered in that situation, but also potentially even the idea that it still is more difficult for women to become really successful and break through that glass ceiling than it is if you're a man.
Bec Brideson
That's right. And it's something that we see everywhere in any industries. I say from Silicon Valley to Hollywood and medicine to law, and even in our Parliament here in Australia, we've seen a difference between the way men and women are able to rise to a certain level of professionalism, not through ability, but through an ingrained culture or the way that's always been.
So, I'm not judging that that's the status quo, but I am really interested in trying to change that because it's just that's the way it was. You know, once you could smoke on an airplane, now you can't smoke in an airport. It's like progress happens, and business has been somewhat slower to accept that progress. And it reminds me of a quote from Melinda Gates who said, we're sending our daughters into workplaces built by their fathers, and we haven't adapted completely to be able to say, does this work for both genders or for all genders? So, I'm really committed to seeing that change as much for my own daughters who are going to enter the workforce as anything else.
Rebecca Archer
And Bec, you mentioned progress there. I wonder, I'm just a bit curious about your thoughts on the workplace Gender Equality Amendment Bill 2023. Do you see that as a positive step forward for females in business?
Bec Brideson
Yes, without doubt, because I think we value what we measure and that is providing absolute transparency, which I think is the key to being able to create resolution. Where there's a problem is you have to understand the size of it and what it looks like in order to really examine it and say, is this fair? How can we change it? So, any reporting anywhere, any analysis of data because the discussion of gender can often feel like a very political discussion or them versus us, or it creates a separation when what we're trying to do is create a better worldview and a better way of bringing more women into the workforce and into the leadership positions so that we can have that diversity around the table. So, I know it's worked in the UK. They've seen that mandatory reporting does lead to change. And the more we have this opportunity to measure and prove that it's currently not working in the favour of everyone, the better off we will be.
Rebecca Archer
Do you think Government, and of course the private sector itself, could actually be doing more to encourage more diversity in terms of gender in the workplace?
Bec Brideson
Absolutely, but some people might think I'm being a bit extreme in that view, but it's almost like we need an overcorrection, because results show that companies that have diverse boards and equality within their leadership teams and diversity, whether that's culturally or from a gendered perspective, is the more successful they are. So, again, if we say, let's look at data because that's how we can truly measure things, then there's a proof point right there.
So, in some ways, I'm incredulous that there aren't more companies embracing this and saying, yes, let's change this right now and let's do a hard course correction. But unfortunately, another statistical fact is that change takes time, so we can't just have that utopia tomorrow.
Rebecca Archer
And how can women actually advocate for themselves and really push for recognition in a creative career?
Bec Brideson
It's a while since I've been in the agency landscape, and I know that the numbers have improved from when I was working within those environments. But I think in any business place, this idea that I think women have learned and are advocating for themselves, it's maybe more, how can our male allies create that space for that to happen? And I think that's the flip and that's the work that I'm doing now. I feel for the last couple of decades, there's been a lot of discussion. I don't think anyone questions now that there's been a disparity or a leaning towards a male or patriarchal culture.
So, we're all on the same page, and sometimes it can feel like women are singing to their own choir – we all know this. And I think where the shift is going to become fundamental from here is that male allies, men, people who are looking at that data, people who are seeing the results that come from a more gender, equal or diverse perspective, they're going to see the change, they're going to see the results. So, I feel that the work to do now is for males and the people that are running companies to actually understand this, embrace it, and implement it.
Rebecca Archer
Bec, I wanted to talk to you about this idea of the ‘ascension of humanity’ and that there's a role to use our creative influence to help with the ascension of humanity. Can you sort of go into a bit of detail about what you mean by that? I know that it was something that you referenced in your graduate address speech at Monash University.
Bec Brideson
Yes. I think that we're coming into an age, it's a natural part of our evolution, that leadership and the perspective about what a strong leader looks like is changing. And I referenced that moment when Jacinda Adurn was wearing a hijab and hugging one of the survivors of that shooting in Christchurch, and that became an iconic symbol of what modern leadership should look like. I mentioned before, we don't want to create separation. What we want is to find commonality. And leaders, I think increasingly the good leaders that we see – whether it's in politics or heading up corporations or schools or whatever institution or business, the leaders that are compassionate, that are humanist, that are seeing ways to drive change whether that be from an ESG perspective and concern for our environment and for the sustainability goals for their business places. That ascension, that change is going to happen when we have an open mind, when we are creative with the way we think about it. It's not just we do it this way because we always have. That's how innovation happens. That's how we've become a tech driven age. And whether we use tech for good or tech for evil is a different discussion. But even the US 24 candidates that I've seen coming through are talking about peace instead of war. So, I believe it's a transformation that is happening as we evolve as a species and that's a great thing. More women in power in Scandinavian countries, they've got the healthiest economies, the best education systems, the best health systems and it really speaks for itself that a different kind of leadership is what is going to create meaningful change that this planet seriously needs.
Rebecca Archer
I wonder what advice you might have for your younger self when it comes to career, and you think about the journey that you've been on and the point you're at now. What would you say if you could go back and address the younger you?
Bec Brideson
Yeah, that's a good question and that PhD in hindsight I'd say because of the environment in which I was dealing, I was a challenger and I did question, I did start to ask why and that would have been around age 23/24 that I started to question why.
So, I was a couple of years into my career, so I don't think I'd change anything then because I was asking those questions. I was agitating. Not that I knew I was agitating to annoy, but I was agitating to drive change because I just couldn't understand why things like that were. And that's when research started to become my best friend because if I'd ask a question and I got an answer well that's the way we do it, I could then go back and say well let's look at data because data is going to show us how we can change this.
So, to answer the question about my younger self, maybe pre-24, I felt that in order to compete within my industry I had to endure a lot of really unsatisfactory behavior. So, in hindsight I wish I'd had more confidence in my voice to stand up for myself. But also, that was a survival mechanism because women were so rare in the industry that we knew if you pushed back or made a big deal of something that was unjust that you wouldn't have a job because it was such a competitive industry. So, there'd be another man or another woman waiting for your job. So, I wish that I had been more assertive, but I also knew that assertiveness may have also led me out of my job.
Rebecca Archer
How do you pass the wisdom that you've earned over all of these years on to women now? What sort of avenues are there for you? Or is it quite easy or are there challenges in being able to get that message out?
Bec Brideson
Yeah, there are challenges and I think of it as if you think about a ladder. There are some people who are at the bottom of that rung. They're not ready to think about gender in this way or they're not ready to be challenged on the way that they see the world. And then there are others that are starting to sort of wake up and have that moment, perhaps as I did when I was younger, or let's say they're further above and they've already come into the workforce and they're thinking, I don't like the way things are. And then it's actually – you move from that awareness to the advocacy and then to the action.
So, depending on where both younger men and younger women are in their careers, depending on where the cultural beat of that workplace is, is where you can do the work. But it's that thing of they have to be ready, they have to recognise that it's time for change and we can't simply accept what's being done because we won't get those results that we know can become a really big part of a business's transformation.
Rebecca Archer
Are there things that women can do to sort of just change the narrative in their own mind in terms of being able to have success
Bec Brideson
Depending on the situation, there are several things – probably having a strong sense of self and identity and what your personal values are – that matters. And I think that's sort of developing then at an individual level, a really good awareness of your own motivators and where you want to go and what your strengths are. And I think equally, what are your weaknesses and how do you want to work on them? Or do they not matter so much? So let's focus on the strengths.
Just two days ago, I saw someone in the middle of the day wearing a balaclava, breaking into my car. And my instinct, without even thinking about it, was I ran outside, and I said, hey, what are you doing? And this masked person ran from my car and down the street. Now, my instinct was to chase and then I remember, well, what was I going to do if I'd caught them anyway?
But one of my mantras is run towards the fire. And so that's what I think is if you're inclined, because not everybody is a run toward the fire kind of person, but if you want to see change, then you've got to experience that bit of heat, you've got to have that willingness and that response to go into those uncomfortable places. But like I say, it doesn't work for everybody, and some people perhaps have different strengths that come from a more silent, steadfast place.
Rebecca Archer
Now, just finally, are there any exciting projects coming up for you that you can tell us about?
Bec Brideson
Yes, so recently I launched a new consultancy which is focused really on introducing the idea of a gender lens in business, and that's from a commercial perspective, because what I know in all these years of working on different brands and products and within different businesses, is if we're doing what we always did, then we get what we always got. And there's an art to opening up that lens in business or evaluating how a business culture is operating, whether that be too male or too female and where are the opportunities. So that starts with really looking at data and understanding how gender is affecting the business currently and what opportunities are being missed.
So, the launch of this consultancy is really exciting, it's a tighter focus and it's to help business create a more strategic commercial operation so that it can really benefit from the growth that comes with understanding how that data can impact bottom line.
Rebecca Archer
And what about any keynote appearances, speeches, things like that? How can people sort of find you if they're keen to get out and see you in person?
Bec Brideson
Yeah, so I have a couple of speakers, Saxton Speakers Bureau and another called Finders Speakers, and often I'm just approached directly on my own website becbrideson.com. And lately I think since COVID there's been this resurgence back to conference land, but I also see that there's a bit of fatigue happening with conferences and the speaking that I've been doing more recently, which I have loved, is to a more intimate and smaller audiences where it's a bit more fluid in Q&A.
So, I've been working with Chief Executive Women of late with their leadership program and I find that really rewarding work. And most of the women have got onto LinkedIn and found me and just said, we want to follow what you're doing. Because I guess, I feel like there is a moment where people wake up and go, right, that if we look at it like that, we're not having a feminist debate, we're not having a battle of gender, we're actually just learning how to see things differently.
Rebecca Archer
You truly are making just an incredible difference. If listeners are keen to keep following your journey and go beyond the podcast and find out a little bit more about what you're doing and how to follow your path, what's the best place to do that?
Bec Brideson
So, LinkedIn definitely is where you can find me and that's Bec Brideson and then as I mentioned, the website becbrideson.com and then my new business is called bridesonbennett.co, so if you Google me, I'll come up.
Rebecca Archer
If you liked this podcast and would like to hear more remarkable stories, you can find, like and subscribe to The Remarkables podcast by Grant Thornton Australia on Apple podcasts or Spotify.
Leave us a review or some ideas on who you'd like to hear from next. I'm Rebecca Archer, thank you for listening.
