Rebecca Archer
Welcome to The Remarkables, Grant Thornton's podcast that seeks to uncover stories about remarkable people doing incredible things for their community, bettering the world for future generations and inspiring others to do the same.
I'm Rebecca Archer, and today I'm joined by exercise physiologists and cofounders of Be Physiology, AJ Morris, Harry White, and Brittney Kenward. They use exercise and movement to help treat chronic health conditions such as stroke, spinal cord injury, neurology conditions and intellectual disabilities, as well as host Unaware a podcast in its second season that aims to demystify disability, through discussions with people about their lived experiences. Welcome, AJ, Harry and Brittney.
Rebecca Archer
So Be Physiology has just celebrated its second birthday. Congratulations. That's a big deal. How did Be Physiology come to be?
AJ Morris
Ah, well, it was a pretty natural sort of progression, Harry and I actually went to school with each other. So, we've known each other since we were 10. And we've both known Brittney since high school as well; Harry and Brittney are now each other's better halves. And again, it was more of a natural conversation, Harry and I studied exercise physiology independently. And we had spoken about wanting to do something together and having Brittney sort of glue things together was how things actually were able to progress as they are today.
Harry White
And we, I mean, we all had our different areas of expertise and areas of interests, leading up to the point where we decided to take the plunge into creating Be Physiology. I was working in private practice for a number of years working with spinal cord and brain injuries, and just realised that's something that that I love doing, and there's potential to do better. So, we all got to talking about that. And here we are.
Rebecca Archer
Can you tell me a bit about the name Be Physiology, I believe it was originally Brisbane Exercise Physiology, hence, the B and the E, but it has evolved. What can you tell me about how that has also informed your podcast?
Harry White
Yeah, it was it was Brisbane Exercise Physiology. But I guess, you know, we were thinking small back then, maybe, you know, we're excited that we're growing, and we're expanding. And we know that Brisbane is, you know, one city and we want to get bigger and help more people and reach more people. And it was funny, during one of our podcasts, with a lady who has a number of neurological conditions, she never actually knew what it stood for. And when we told her, she was very surprised, because she, she thought it was more along the lines of ‘be yourself’ or ‘be the best person you can be’. And I remember thinking, Yeah, that's exactly what it's for.
AJ Morris
Yeah, we really hitched our wagon to that horse, it was a great way to define the brand, or the business.
Harry White
Named by a client, which is fitting.
Rebecca Archer
Perfect responding to what's out there, and the energy that was in the room at the time. I love it. And what exactly makes you passionate about exercise physiology? Because it is very clear that you are passionate about it.
AJ Morris
Yeah, well, I mean, it's a pretty easy thing to be passionate about, because you in real time get to see the difference that you make in people's lives. And there aren't a whole bunch of jobs that you can actually say that about. I don't want to steal Harry's answer. But he actually said this recently, when we were speaking to a group of exercise physiology students, and that was that as an exercise physiologist, you will legitimately save somebody's life at some point. In fact, you'll be doing it almost on a daily basis. So, like I said, it's very easy to find passion for when you're a part of that whole journey for people.
Harry White
And you get to really enjoy the things that you didn't appreciate at the beginning, when you see those tiny little functional improvements for someone, and they can literally mean the world to their quality of life, and just to be even a fly on the wall, let alone be involved in those situations. It's just, it's a lovely feeling.
Rebecca Archer
And often that only comes when you are practicing. I know a lot of people when they choose their field of study, it's just about oh, well, I got good marks in this particular stream of subjects. So, I guess that's the natural progression. But it's interesting, isn't it? Because sometimes only when you're actually out there doing it, working with people, seeing those improvements and the quality of life improving for them, that you can go ‘oh, I didn't have any idea how rewarding this could possibly be’.
AJ Morris
Yeah, that's so true, especially in the neuro realm, because I've said to many people about myself that I actually didn't know whether or not I would be intimidated by disability before I worked with it. It was kind of like jumping into a pool and you're not knowing whether or not you could swim, and thankfully, I just enjoyed it thoroughly and it was a great realm of exercise physiology to work in.
Harry White
You're exactly right. Insider perspective, it's great.
Rebecca Archer
And what made you gravitate to that in the first place?
Harry White
It's a good question like, as I said before the effects and the powers of exercise, they're undeniable, you know, the benefits are amazing. And they benefit people more, the more deconditioned, or the more sedentary you are, it's like only little bits really are required to have such, you know, profound advantages and benefits for you. And unfortunately, when it comes to people living with disabilities, they're often the first to be marginalised when it comes to maintaining this healthy and active lifestyle. And you know, whether it's access to the actual services themselves, like we can sign up for a boot camp, down the road, if we really wanted to, it goes for eight weeks, it cost this much money, we can go there. And that's going to be what we focus, you know, our exercise routine. There's barely any of that around for someone who mobilises with a wheelchair, or has trouble lifting their left foot, or has gone through maybe a really catastrophic injury that's affected in some other way. There's just not a lot of options out there. And there's that. There's also lack of education around before that population, like just how great it is, it's, it's really just a fantastic tool to keep you active, keep you moving. And then there's also it could be a lack of importance that the community puts on actually having people access these things as well. So, there's a whole bunch of these a whole bunch of barriers that come in the way and reduces the likelihood that people who have disabilities stay active. So, I guess for us, we understand that.
AJ Morris
I was going to say, what Harry’s said there basically defines how we structured Be Physiology, which is number one to make this service or make exercise services more accessible to the people that we feel need the most. But also, to be able to provide that high end care because like you said, you have neurological disability, exercise physiology is its own thing. And having knowledge or having a passion in that area is not something that everybody has. So, we basically combined that with trying to make it more accessible, and you have Be Physiology.
Rebecca Archer
Now, obviously, exercise physiology isn't necessarily specific to people living with a disability. So, what specifically made you focus on people who do have disabilities?
Harry White
Another good question, I think that when you dip your toe into this particular area, you start hearing a lot of, a lot of stories. And a lot of those things are just how difficult it is to achieve a ‘normal thing’. You know, say if we wanted to prepare dinner, right, so being able to stand at the kitchen, bench, operate utensils, to cut food, all those little things, all those little things that AJ and I we’ll work on those individual aspects, break them down and work on the things that you need to gain to gain even one part. You know, holding a fork in a particular way, or standing across from a table for a particular amount of time. And breaking down the muscles that is used to do that. That's the kind of thing that we love to focus on. And I think that's why disability really rang home for us, because it gives us a pathway. And it gives us a real like a meaning to our work as well because we get to see that real time result.
Rebecca Archer
And people who do live with a disability often talk about how there might be a prejudice among people to see the disability before they see the human. I'm interested to hear from you about what your experience has been around that and why it's so important to categorise humanity ahead of anything else.
AJ Morris
Yeah, well, it's certainly one of the best lessons that you learned working in disability is to not do that. And to see people as they are and not for the disability that they come with, if that's word well enough. But yeah, I mean, it certainly drives the way that we get to work with people. Like Harry and I are very, I think we both pride ourselves on our ability to build relationships with the people that we work with. And part of that, again, is not looking just at their disability, but looking at, you know, how we interact with them as human beings.
Harry White
There's always a line that people seem to draw, it's like, oh, this is them as a person, and this is their disability. But if you just don't have that line, you know, if you just accept them as a person, that mobilises a bit differently, you know, that's, that's the way it should be looked at. And look, there might be some things that, that come along with that, that means it takes an extra 10 minutes to get ready, or you need a particular form of transport. So be it it's just part of life, you know.
AJ Morris
You'd be surprised as well. I mean, like, especially you learn more working in this field, but what is labelled specifically as disability is a big spectrum. And if you're going to paint one person with that brush, you would be surprised at how often you need to use that same brush where you wouldn't think it's applicable. But by that rule of just objectively painting somebody is disabled to live in with a disability, yeah, it's bigger than what people tend to realise.
Brittney Kenward
We recently had a client as well, not a client, sorry, client, mom. And she, she said something to us, that kind of also sums up what we're trying to say here. She said, different equals different. It doesn't mean it's wrong. That was just a perfect way to put it.
Rebecca Archer
So well put Absolutely. And Brittney, so nice to hear from you. I was just going to ask. Any business, but particularly your business to make it successful, a lot has to happen behind the scenes. And my understanding is that Brittney, you are the glue behind the scenes there. But it's not your full-time role. Can you tell me a bit more about that?
Brittney Kenward
So, I also am in the position of Senior Campaign Manager at GT. And the firm here has just been incredible. And offer me just so much flexibility to have my Be Physiology commitment, my baby, as I like to call it. But they value my development, they value my aspirations. And I've been working flexibly now for over 12 months. And I've just recently moved to 80%, just to allow a bit more time for Be Physiology. It can be stressful; I'm not going to lie about that. But it's definitely been me putting the pressure on, not the team, not the firm. I'm just a huge advocate for what we do. So, it just makes it so rewarding.
Rebecca Archer
How do you actually fit it all into the limited amount of hours in each day, there must be so much work on top of your substantive role there at Grant Thornton.
Brittney Kenward
Patience and coffee. And then I should also say, I'm a massive advocate for Asana. I'm not sure if you've heard of it. It's a project management tool. And my phone, my calendar pretty much runs my life. It reminds me of what I'm doing. And I schedule things weeks in advance. But it is it's it's just squeezing everything out of the time that you have in the morning, in the in the nights, in the lunchtime. As I said, I'm at 80%. So, I get a full day, and I just basically jam pack as much as I possibly can. And we do events and stuff like that. But look, it's amazing to see how far we've come. And it just gives me so much more motivation to keep going.
Rebecca Archer
And have you got the same drivers, as we've been hearing from Harry and AJ, to do both Be Physiology and your GT job?
Brittney Kenward
I think we all have different drivers. Look, there's definitely some overlap in terms of ambition to Be Physiology. And as AJ said before making exercise physiology more accessible for people who need it most. That's our mission. And we obviously all have that drive. But for me personally, part of my drive, I think, also comes from trying to find out what my potential is. I love a challenge. I value professional and personal development. I've got access to these two worlds, and it just brings so many opportunities.
Rebecca Archer
Now your business, obviously the work that you're doing, you've obviously changed the lives of many clients through the services that you provide. But can you tell me are there any achievements that have really stuck with you that you're most proud of?
Harry White
I think, you know, I'll speak for AJ, myself and Britt here as well, the achievements that we really appreciate or love being part of are like, usually achievements of others. I look at you know what I do every day. And there's, there's a part there's always a system, the structure and process that we go through. But seeing other people do all the work and achieve some amazing things is, is you know, part of the reason why we do what we do. But a few things that come to mind working in this field for a while you really do come across some amazing stories and, and there was actually a girl that I used to work with recently, she had just got her licence on that day, jumped in the car, drove and had a horrific car accident. That was the first time she was solo in a car. So, it was just one of those things that you just shocked in awe of you know, what's happening. She suffered a traumatic brain injury and medical staff told her father that she wouldn't be able to talk, wouldn't be able to walk, wouldn't be able to eat, wouldn't be able to move on her own, at all. And to essentially check her into a nursing home and move on with their lives. I guess just seeing how that family fought for their daughter was the amazing thing. And, you know, being a part of her recovery.
So now that she's able to go to the store with her father, walk around, go shopping with her father, talking the whole time, and you know, going on holidays together. From A to B is just like a ridiculous jump and such an achievement that being a part of, like you can just that just fuels you for a long time. And even little things like or not little things. But other stories like having a client recently, with a spinal cord injury, if she was ever to fall out of her chair and onto the ground, she would have to wait on the floor for hours or however long for someone to come and help her back into the chair or back onto a bed or back onto anything. And now she can transfer from the floor to the wheelchair at will. And that independence in itself is just a beautiful thing to witness. And that's such a huge achievement because now with that skill, she can get up and down off the ground whenever she likes, and she can interact with her grandchildren on the floor. And that's something you never really think about when you just meet this person and talk to them. But there's so many little things in life that you're robbed of if you have an injury, or like a spinal cord injury, brain injury, and getting any of those little things back and I think that's a huge thing getting on the ground playing with your grandkids again, is just like it's an amazing achievement to be a part of.
And yeah, and just recently, actually, we had another client, she walked 5 kilometres in the Bridge to Brisbane, no 4.5 kilometres in the Bridge to Brisbane, after suffering a pretty large stroke, leaving her left side quite badly affected. And she walked that 4.5 kilometres in about two hours, which was magnificent. On the weekend, we just came from the Young Care Bolt, and she walked five kilometres, or 500 metres more, in 25 minutes less. And she's doing all of this just to be with, and to provide for her children. It's just those kinds of things make you really see the power of this stuff, I guess
AJ Morris
They're really really good examples as well, because they're, they're quite large or profound. It's really easy to objectify why those goals are so important. But if I can give a quick example of like, just literally today, before I was in this podcast with you guys, today, I did an exercise with a client and I basically got her to stand and take a ping pong ball from one bucket and put it into another and do that without holding on to anything. And that sounds like nothing. But I kept a smile on my face for like, literally 45 minutes, because it was such a big achievement for that one person. So, exercise physiology, especially in the neuro realm, it's a lot of small wins that eventually equate to those big ones, but they make you feel good, just the same.
Rebecca Archer
It sounds like there's just so much hope and dignity involved in your job. It's really inspiring. But I guess, like any job, there are also your bad days or the negative times which then down the track might inform a bit of an ‘aha’ moment or a turning point where you start to do something differently. So have you had any of those moments where you can think back and say, well, that was a really bad day. But in the end, it actually informed a path that was better for us.
AJ Morris
Oh, definitely I mean, again, exercise physiology in general, I think is always going to be a learning curve. And you in any profession, I think you develop, and you can you grow as what you are. And because of that you can always look back on decisions that you made earlier in your career, or as part of your job where you feel like you could have done something better. But it is a corny thing to say it does sort of all lead you to where you are today. And especially again, working with disability and working in neurological conditions, it is a lot of it can be kind of trial and error. You know, when you are trying lots of things. So, you almost have to make mistakes to get progression when working with particular people.
Harry White
Yeah, I think we are so we're so good learning from her mistakes. It's like that's a big part of the job as well. Because every day is different. Every person with the same condition is present super different. So yeah, it's always a it's a forever changing landscape. Yeah.
AJ Morris
And the same person on a different day is different.
Rebecca Archer
Now, of course, your guests here today on our podcast, but you do have your own podcast with the aim of demystifying disability, what inspired you to go down that road?
AJ Morris
If we're being honest, it was about trying to bring more awareness to the world of disability. I mean, again, if it wasn't for the work that were doing now, and being an exercise physiologist, I would have very little if not zero experience with disability and I would be out there making mistakes the first time I came across anybody. So, a part of starting the podcast initially was just to try and bring some awareness to particular conditions. And that was season one. And now it's progressed to season two, where we're doing less of the talking and allowing our clients to come on and tell their stories which is way better like and it's fulfilling for us as well because you hear different sides of things that maybe not necessarily get overlooked but just don't come up as part of our sessions with them.
Harry White
It's better than just listening back and it's just me and AJ talking to each other the whole time. I think at heart Go ahead, when does it end?
AJ Morris
We find ourselves hilarious
Harry White
In the moment, afterwards, not so much. So, the first series looking at movies and how particularly disabilities, presented in those movies, and then relating them to our real-life experience with people knowing with people and working with people with those conditions. And then the second series, now we're having people to come on, tell their amazing stories give their insight on, you know, even things like we are with a lot of these people for a number of hours every week, that's more than you'll see your some of your family, a lot of the time. So, you really get to know these people. And I was amazed just how much more I learned about them, sitting down in these scenarios and getting the full story. So, it's an amazing vessel that allows to get deeper into their story and find out more about some amazing people.
Rebecca Archer
And what have you learned from the podcast? How does it ‘fill your cup’ so to speak?
AJ Morris
Yeah, it can be a little bit weird to say out loud, but hearing how your like your work with someone has positively affected somebody else's life. I mean, it fills your cup, it really does. And it can be weird, because it almost sounds a little bit like almost too self-serving and arrogant to talk about the work that you do. But I think it's okay for Harry and I, or exercise physiologist in general, to be proud of what we do as a job. I think it's okay. And I enjoy getting to have those conversations as part of that.
Harry White
And it takes you a while to get to that point anyway, like I remember, you know, I've been doing this for a number of years now. And in the beginning, I didn't even like talking to people about my job. Because I didn't want people to think like I was some kind of, you know, hero who's helping all these people, where in my eyes, I'm just doing my job, and I enjoy my job. So why is that any different to anyone else? But then you start working, you know, you start realising that, you know, you, you're in a super unique situation. And it's good for people to hear about this, and more people should hear about this.
Rebecca Archer
And what surprised you the most from unpacking disabilities or neurological conditions in season one, and through the conversations in season 201?
AJ Morris
One thing that I did say, and I wouldn't say it relates to every single conversation that we had. But it does come up a bit, which is where people talk about this not ‘aha moment’, but this point in their life, or in their journey where they discovered exercise physiology. And that sounds like a plug. But obviously, that's a big part of what our podcast is, and realising how many people don't actually give exercise in general enough credit for how it can benefit your life. And then yeah, hearing that sort of like it's almost like a before and after point. “And then I started doing this. And then all of a sudden, I was able to do all of that.” It comes up a bit. It's quite cool. But it's interesting to hear, I guess how often it's not known for at least a portion of people's lives.
Rebecca Archer
How can able bodied people make themselves a bit more educated or aware or even just open to what people living with disabilities go through?
Harry White
You know, maybe I'll give you an example of something that I started to witness early on in my career, when I was outside of the clinic with people using wheelchairs, and people would come up to them with all the best intentions and say, hey, you must be so proud, or I'm so proud of what you're doing. And you know, they're pushing their chair up the walkway, or something like that, those type of things. And then you know, I'll be like, oh, that's interesting, and getting praise from a stranger, okay. And then I'll, they'll leave, and I'll talk to the person that they just addressed. And, you know, you can see them just like, head down shaking their head because to them, or to a lot of people you don't want pity. And a lot of the time when, and again, as I said, it's all the right intentions. And people really do want to be like, Okay, how can I? How can I voice that I support this person, and I think that's great. But it's just about treating someone exactly like everyone else. So, if they didn't come up to me and say, you’re doing such a good job walking up that walkway, Harry, you know, they shouldn't really go out to someone and just start, you know, cheering them on, I guess. And I know it sounds a little bit. I know that sounds a bit strange, but it's something that I learned pretty early on, and it's just everyone wants to be treated the same.
Brittney Kenward
You also say quite often, and this happens often. I've seen it we've all seen it that a lot of the time someone will take a very motherly approach. And Harry, you've seen this AJ you've seen this? I don't know if you have an example.
Harry White
I mean exactly right. So it is that maternal, what can I do for you? Like is there anything I can do? You know, I'll get this this this out of the way and everything and to a point that's actually really helpful for a lot of people you know, ignoring someone because they're in a wheelchair is obviously not the right thing to do. But, you know, then kind of the next too much of that is that overly mothering type interaction with people where they don't want you to be hovering over them and mothering them, they just want to be part of that music festival, or they want to be part of the bar scene that's going on around them, you know, not, they just don't want to be reminded of them using a wheelchair.
Rebecca Archer
But given that, I guess, for the people who do want to show support, or you know, offer some help, what's the best way to go about it? Do you think perhaps the right thing to do is to just ask, do you need a hand?
AJ Morris
Yeah, definitely. I mean, it depends on the context as well, I mean, if somebody is going on their merry way, assuming that they need help, just because you know, their gait or their walking function looks different to you or I is probably not always the right move. But, you know, I think anybody also has enough sense to know when somebody's trying to do the right thing. And yeah, like you can be, you can certainly be inappropriate and that's a learning curve. But yeah, I think making assumptions is probably rule number one of what not to do. And then from there, just, you know, being a decent and caring person is pretty fun, too. Yeah.
Rebecca Archer
So, what have you learned about yourselves as a result of your work with clients over the years, what has that informed you about your own personalities?
Harry White
I guess, every year I do this, I know that I'm changing. Like every year that I am, you know, committing a large portion of my life to this particular work, or another year that I'm surrounded by these people. And this population, and, you know, my colleagues as well. I know, it's changing me. I've always been one for trying to be better than I was yesterday. And I can't even tell you what that change is. I just think in my head that it's good. So, I guess it's, it's hard for me to put into words.
AJ Morris
Yeah, it is a difficult one, I think it would be the same thing in terms of how self-reflective I am in my work. I think for a long time in my life, I don't think I would have put as much focus on that. But because of how often we have to learn, like in terms of being role specific, and how we work with people, it's constantly sort of reminding me of how I want to be progressing as a person. And yeah, my job helps me to do that, or my work helps me to do that.
Harry White
It's easier to reflect on trying to get better when there's people around you doing some amazing things getting better.
Rebecca Archer
Well, what advice would you give to your younger selves? Who if you could go back in time and say to them, you know, before you did all of this work with people living with a disability, what would the maybe you know, the top points that you would give to yourselves?
Harry White
probably just get involved. More, you know, it doesn't have to be anything over the top. I have literally zero interaction with anyone living with any kind of disability or especially like, a visual disability that I could make out. But just knowing that there is a huge population of people out there, who do life a bit different, and just trying to understand that and get involved and be part of, you know, a Bridge to Brisbane, or, you know, another charity event, or yeah, and just help just trying to understand and be part of their life. And their, I guess their tribulations throughout the community as well is, is something to just look out for.
Brittney Kenward
I guess, I would also say, just to top that, but seek out diversity; find those opportunities. Just like what Harry was saying there. They get diversity, find those opportunities for yourself, be a yes, person, go do these things. Get out there. Keep learning.
Rebecca Archer
Now, something that you ask everyone at the start of your podcast is what would be the title of your auto biography? So, tell me what would be yours?
AJ Morris
I guess I'll go first. Mine. This is a hard question. I never thought I'd have to answer this. But mine is “Why is this working?” Which is a bit weird, but I, it's, I feel very blessed to be in the position that I'm in not just with my work, but especially with my work but with you know, my family and my friends. I'm very lucky. And sometimes when I think about how lucky I am, it's kind of hard to see what the path was like, how did I get here? How come I am so lucky. So yeah, again, not to say that I'm not proud of you know, how I've gotten here. And I understand that I played a part in all of that, but I'm still sometimes very shocked to be, where I am today, and I feel very lucky and blessed to be here.
Harry White
Mine is “It's not about you”. I think when you know you look back to when you're a young kid and everything is about you or about me, let's just get to that everything was about me, you know. And it takes you a little while to separate yourself from the world. You know, I had someone recently say that “life isn't happening to you; life is just happening”. So that that was like, oh, that makes perfect sense for this, this kind of ride that I'm on. I'm just part of it, just like everyone else is part of it. And yeah, it's not about me.
Rebecca Archer
And Brittney, what about you?
Brittney Kenward
Mine would be “Celebrate the little things”. I'm all about that I care so much about Be Physiology about our people about our clients. And so much of what we do involves building these strong relationships and that kind of starts within and it starts with the little things and showing that appreciation.
Rebecca Archer
They're all fantastic titles for people who may not have thought about this or figured that they'd be asked that question, you've done pretty well there. Listen, AJ, Harry. Brittney, thank you so much for your time. I could just keep talking to you for hours and hours. It's so interesting and fulfilling really. I'm wondering how our listeners might be able to continue to follow your journey.
AJ Morris
You can follow us on our socials. Obviously, you can check out the podcast as well. It's called the Unaware podcast by Be Physiology, which is on all of those major platforms. We have our website as well and our numbers listed on the page. If you want to have a chat about anything, you certainly have any questions at any point about exercise physiology or Be Physiology specifically, we love talking about what we do, obviously.
Rebecca Archer
Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for your time today. It's just been a pleasure to get to know you.
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